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I am still working through getting my colors correct with my printer, I have the correct ICC profile installed and the setting on my printer corrected. However, some colors do not want to 'pop' off of the shirt. I am sure it has to do with what kind of polyester I am printing on, but I was wondering if theres a way to make my colors brighter on the shirt or does it come down to what type of surface I am printing on?.EDIT. I am using an Epson 1400 Printer with a Cobra Ink system as well as the ICC profile they provided.
GordonM January 9th, 2013 02:38 PM. Doing a test print on a hard-surface substrate can help you determine if the problem is lack of saturation and brightness in the inks or printing, or if it's due to the use of fabric. If you are using PhotoShop, you can also do a soft proof to more readily visualize how the printing will appear, and whether you are using out-of-gamut colors. A test photo that includes a luminosity patch or swatch (looks like it's glowing with color) is helpful. Your sub printer will not be able to reproduce these tones, and you'll see them as out-of-gamut in the proof. Here's a test target that I use: I think this is the one Mike (mgparrish here) mentioned carries the appropriate document profile. The one I use has an embedded Adobe 1998 profile, but I'm not 100% sure where I got it.
You want to make sure your test target also has the Adobe 1998 profile, or at least is not unprofiled. Get a couple of aluminum license plates. They're pretty cheap at just dollars each. You can do some print comparisons that way. Because of the smooth surface colors should be overall sharper and clearer, and that will help you with a baseline. Riderz Ready January 9th, 2013 03:54 PM.
If I read correctly your are missing brightness (pop) or certain colors which would mean that most of your colors are good. That would eliminate most everything and put the problem to the ink/profile. If your issue was the fabric all the colors would be sup par.
The good news is you seem to be able to recognize it is not right. I have seen samples where people love the colors and it is simply because they have never seen great colors.
When we looked at changing ink brands some years back we heard all sorts of wonderful tales about colors, etc. To be honest - did not believe one of them. I sent the fabric we were using to several vendors and asked for a color chart back. The difference between the samples sent back floored me. With the right ink and profile colors should explode. MustangFWL January 9th, 2013 05:31 PM.
Gordon, I actually saw that post earlier today when I was looking around, I am going to read the articles adn do the test tomorrow. And I will give the license plates a try, I think that was one thing I didnt order to try out. Yeah, alot of colors come out nicely (a few are still off, but not by much) When my first blue came out purple, I knew I had a problem somewhere along the line, a switch to the correct ICC profile fixed that one quick (as well as turning off the printers color management option), I have seen reds that look absolutely bright and cherry, but the red I printed and press out looked like a fire truck that had been through a cloud of smoke (maybe not that dull, but it wasnt what I thought a true red (255 RGB) would look like) Any recommendations of who I should look at for inks? I bought a CIS for my 1400, so I dont think I am limited to certain inks/brands (I am probably wrong on that though) GordonM January 9th, 2013 06:18 PM. What you're looking to do is verify the.transfer. of the dye.
A weak transfer, for whatever reason, can cause loss of brilliancy in some colors. Poor blacks and reds are the most common. The blacks look grayish or even blue; red looks orange. This is why I recommend a hard surface transfer. First off, it takes less ink to image onto the typical hard surface.
You generally need a higher release paper to have the best results with poly fabrics. This is why most folks recommend TexPrint HR over the generic DyeTrans or similar when pressing on fabrics. Things I'd try: 1. Increase dwell time. Ensure your press really is at 400 degrees. Use a higher release paper. Select a paper type or print quality that will lay down more ink.
Turn off High Speed printing (that lays down less ink when it's on). If you use a test print with a gray scale, you can 'lock' the grays and blacks first, then go to the other colors. If the grays turn a chocolate brown, it's too much time, or too hot.
You're now destroying the dye with too much heat. When done properly, your reds will look like the goriest slasher movie you've ever seen! As RR sez, the system is capable of bright and brilliant colors. MustangFWL January 9th, 2013 06:23 PM. I was wondering if that High Speed printing played a part in things, I will turn that off for sure, right now I am using the DyeTrans paper (I saw it all over so I figured it had to be ok to use) but I will order the TexPrint to try out. My blacks were so-so, sometimes they would turn out a but light.
(maybe that will be fixed by taking the fast print off?) Samples I have been show were bright, so I know it can get there haha, its just a matter of reaching that point GordonM January 9th, 2013 10:04 PM. For dye-pressing fabric Riderz Ready is the go-to guy, so well see what he suggests. But in general, weak blacks are caused by: 1. Not enough time or heat.
I'd up one, or the other, and see how that works. (Avoid changing two things at once. Best to take it one step at a time.) 2.
Not enough ink. On the Epson 7010 turning off High Speed takes it up a notch, dpi-wise.
The higher the dpi, the more ink is laid down. Not great paper. Try some higher release stuff first chance you get. Not great fabric. I test on a 600D (fairly tight weave) white polyester I get at Joann's. Avoid the more sheer material. It should be heavy enough so that you can only see light when looking through it, but not make out much actual shapes of things.
This has proven (for me) to be a reliable test fabric. It takes up dye well, and shows deep and bright colors. Pisquee January 10th, 2013 03:48 AM. Are you using an ICC for fabrics? Or hard surfaces?
Have you got the printer settings the same as the ICC was created with/for? You mentioned buying a CISS filled with ink for your 1400, and thinking about changing ink brands. Each ink brand will have its own colour and need a different ICC to compensate.
What ink brand are you currently using? Are you using an ICC that is from that ink maker, or one that was custom made for your printer and inks?
I am not 100% sure what the icc profile is set for, could it be optimized for both? Yes, I went through and made sure the settings were correct (as provided by cobra ink) I am using cobra inks r7820 (I think I have the number right, going from memory at this point, will edit if wrong) high temp ink and the icc profile provided by them mustangFWL January 10th, 2013 04:46 AM. Gordon, I played around with the temp and time yesterday and I believe I found a good mixture for my heat press, compared to what I had tried for my first print 2 days ago.
I used one of vapor apparels performance shirts, it was a real heavy weight material and the print came out really nice, ill post a picture, but even then I didn't think a few colors 'poped'. And maybe it's just me, I donno But I will try taking off the high print speed and im going to order some paper this afternoon mgparrish January 10th, 2013 10:33 AM.
Gordon, I played around with the temp and time yesterday and I believe I found a good mixture for my heat press, compared to what I had tried for my first print 2 days ago. I used one of vapor apparels performance shirts, it was a real heavy weight material and the print came out really nice, ill post a picture, but even then I didn't think a few colors 'poped'. And maybe it's just me, I donno But I will try taking off the high print speed and im going to order some paper this afternoon This is the link to the test file.
You should post your graphic application settings and your printer settings. GordonM January 10th, 2013 11:52 AM. I am not 100% sure what the icc profile is set for, could it be optimized for both? Yes, I went through and made sure the settings were correct (as provided by cobra ink) Cobra's (as with most) profiles are made using a specific substrate, but he doesn't always tell you what that is.
It's not really possible to optimize a single profile for two vastly different substrates, because they exhibit different properties. These properties, as well as the colors themselves, are registered by the spectrographic scanner used to make the profile. All profiles establish white and black points as the 'top' and 'bottom' of the color range. Fabrics have a different white and black reference than does gloss FRP, matte FRP, aluminum, glass, and so on. As I've said before, you first want to verify the transfer of your dyes.
The transfer provides a known baseline for things like temperature, time, ink laydown, and paper type. Once you're sure you're not doing something like pressing for too short, or using crap paper, you can worry about color fidelity. The best profile in the world will not correct for these issues.
It's always better to use reference photos rather than arbitrary artwork, because no one else knows how the art is supposed to look. The PhotoDisc example Mike provided is a good one. It's the image I use on everything to test. Cobra inks will provide reasonably acceptable appearance without a profile, so you might test the transfer settings you have by temporarily turning off profiles. There will be colors that shift, but that's not your concern at a the moment. You want to verify you're getting adequate ink laydown, and a good, solid transfer using quality paper and the right press settings. Riderz Ready January 10th, 2013 12:11 PM.
Our experience is that if you have the right ink and profile many of the other variables really do not matter to any degree when it comes to fabric. With the right ink/profile we have zero need for multiple profiles based on the substrate, Maybe if you were doing professional photography on Chromoluxe but for us we use the same profile for jerseys as we do number plates. Both print perfectly. With the right ink/profile I really cannot tell the difference between pressing at 380 vs 400 or pressing for 45 seconds or 55 seconds. There is a lot of wiggle room with the right inks/profiles.
When it comes to paper I really cannot tell any significant difference between the brands in the print quality. For us we use Beaver tacky simply because it speeds production by no ghosting and no need for using additional blow through paper. Gordon mentioned laying down more ink. I would agree that will help you determine if it is settings or ink/profile.
This just goes back to the idea of never changing inks unless the vendor is willing to send a sample on a similar substrate to what you will be using. Mgparrish January 10th, 2013 02:18 PM. Gordon, I played around with the temp and time yesterday and I believe I found a good mixture for my heat press, compared to what I had tried for my first print 2 days ago.
I used one of vapor apparels performance shirts, it was a real heavy weight material and the print came out really nice, ill post a picture, but even then I didn't think a few colors 'poped'. And maybe it's just me, I donno But I will try taking off the high print speed and im going to order some paper this afternoon I actually use the same inks. With that vendors profiles.
Papers matter 2. Substrates matter 3. Having the right profile for the right paper and substrate matter. This vendor is not making a one size fits all profile like you may be hearing about from those who don't actually use these profiles and inks. Other things like improper color management setup can hose you too. Nearly all photographers use different profiles for different papers.
Sublimation profiles have to cover a wider substrate reflectivity and gamma range than exists on photo papers. If one gets a 'one size fits all' profile it cannot be 100% optimized for every substrate/paper combination. Pisquee January 10th, 2013 02:26 PM.
Webstir.com: Color Management - PDI Test Image PDI Photo Test Target PhotoDisc, Inc. Has created a target you can use when doing your testing. Availability: You are free to use this image for whatever you like as long as you do not remove the logos. It comes in various sizes and formats, you can make your own from our source or call us, we can help you get good results or changes needed. How it was created: The image started with industry standard targets from Gretag MacBeth, Heidelberg and Kodak. We assembled the targets and collection of elements in a foam core box to cast subtle shadows.
The box was lit with a bank of 5500 deg. Kelvin fluorescent on the left and a large fill card on the right side. It was then photographed with a Better Light 6000 digital scanning back on a Cambo 4 x 5 view camera.
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